Subject	I would describe it as, when the air filter sees 414 cfm
Posted by	not4resaleZ on December 10, 2010 at 5:26 PM
	This message has been viewed 253 times.
In Reply To	Ok, at 7500RPM and 0psi a 3.0L engine moves ~199CFM posted by LitlElvis on December 10, 2010 at 04:40 PM
Message	per side, the intercooler sees 199 cfm at 15 psi. There are lots of variables as you have mentioned, and these make things pretty complicated. Particularly the 414 cfm at the air filter. It may be much more than 414 due to the vacuum created. This is part of the reason I think the pipes from the filter to the turbo are so critical. Larger high pressure pipes slow down the air flow and I think this greatly improves the intercooler efficency. I calculated stock size pipe air at about 100 mph. This just shoots across the center of the intercooler. Larger piping lets more of the intercooler cool the air more effectively. I calculated 21% more air mass with 80% intercooler efficiency vs. heat soaked. This is huge. Pipe pressure drop- not so much.
Follow Ups	Im going to be upgrading to Ashspec Massives - Nis300owner 00:30:26 12/10/10 I believe SZ can modify the stillens to 2.5 in and out maybe - 5280Z_nightstalker 00:38:31 12/10/10 they can but they wont be as thick as the massives - Nis300owner 00:44:16 12/10/10 Just throwing it out their as a cheaper alternative. - 5280Z_nightstalker 00:54:31 12/10/10 Waves magic wand..... - SeanK (StL) 01:29:20 12/10/10 damn (n/m) - blackomega 01:37:16 12/10/10 I knew that graph was around but I didnt notice they did - 5280Z_nightstalker 01:41:21 12/10/10 I'll do you one better. - ZiNnYc 03:43:24 12/10/10 Good link. (n/m) - SimaYi 11:03:59 12/10/10 bookmarked, great info. (n/m) - fantomZ(OH) 13:55:41 12/10/10 Most helpful post from you in over a year... - ni[X]it 16:41:05 12/10/10 kma (n/m) - ZiNnYc 18:45:53 12/10/10 2nd (ni[x]it) (n/m) - CoHPhasor 19:23:39 12/10/10 there is a flaw in that thread regarding crossflow theory - aliaZ 16:54:17 12/10/10 Are the AshSPEC Sport SMICs *essentially* the same - BigTDogg (MA) 07:42:50 12/10/10 IIRC, they were the same until Ash left Z1. Now I think Ash - PiotrC70 08:31:34 12/10/10 Same cores, both cast aluminum endtanks with what look to be - ZiNnYc 08:35:43 12/10/10 Same core, different endtanks. We cast our endtanks but - Ash's Z 11:12:53 12/10/10 I'll post a pic of mine when I get home. I got them used - BigTDogg (MA) 11:22:09 12/10/10 You'll need to mesure the i.d. of the inlet/outlet ports - Ash's Z 12:00:23 12/10/10 I'd like to see what you could do with your 2.5" piping - not4resaleZ 21:23:57 12/10/10 i would definately consider modifying my GReddys because - blackomega 01:28:07 12/10/10 TIG welder, some practice and proper technique and ur good (n/m) - Ted(Snowflake..) 04:33:33 12/10/10 Ash can modify them for you. Link to pics of my modified - Mr.Stacy 05:06:23 12/10/10 Chart above doesn't seem accurate-Greddy's dont look so good - ZXoltan 09:00:46 12/10/10 Ash did the tests. - Woody75 (Denver) 09:32:33 12/10/10 I agree. Would be nice for someone to reproduce and validate - ZXoltan 09:39:26 12/10/10 You could always just have your ICs flowtested by someone - Ash's Z 10:33:53 12/10/10 Q - BigTDogg (MA) 10:59:09 12/10/10 Why don't you test them all at 200 cfm and 15psi or 20psi - not4resaleZ 13:05:58 12/10/10 The power requirement to move that much air - Jim (Selin Design) 13:35:17 12/10/10 The problem with data logging is you would have to block - not4resaleZ 15:30:05 12/10/10 On a dyno pull you wouldn't have - Jim (Selin Design) 17:14:32 12/10/10 Thermodynamically speaking >>>> - Ash's Z 14:17:14 12/10/10 To put it simply, it's not necessary to do this... - LitlElvis 15:07:16 12/10/10 but your engine will only flow about 200 psf max. (n/m) - not4resaleZ 15:34:26 12/10/10 Re: but your engine will only flow about 200 psf max. - not4resaleZ 15:45:40 12/10/10 That looks to be some rendition of a formula for - LitlElvis 16:00:59 12/10/10 I'm sorry, I mean 200 cfm. This is based on the engine - not4resaleZ 16:07:22 12/10/10 Ok, at 7500RPM and 0psi a 3.0L engine moves ~199CFM - LitlElvis 16:40:28 12/10/10 clarification - aliaZ 17:21:22 12/10/10 I know, I should have used "SCFM" instead of "CFM" - LitlElvis 18:16:07 12/10/10 agreed (n/m) - aliaZ 18:21:08 12/10/10 I would describe it as, when the air filter sees 414 cfm - not4resaleZ 17:26:14 12/10/10 This is a standard formula for pressure drop in a pipe. - not4resaleZ 16:04:19 12/10/10 I like bell intercoolers charts. They test cores using a - not4resaleZ 13:21:15 12/10/10 ...I dont think the Bells have aluminum endtanks like the - ZiNnYc 13:35:42 12/10/10 Greddys only flow a bit more than stock. - The Hawk 12:41:10 12/10/10 This is the opposite of anything I have ever heard. (n/m) - blackomega 13:09:44 12/10/10 2nd- although my info comes primarily from TT.net postings (n/m) - ZXoltan 13:44:34 12/10/10 As discussed above, the chart from Ash - The Hawk 19:07:59 12/10/10 Interesting since in empirial testing i found - ztunerz 20:18:54 12/10/10 Ignore the spelling errors-touchscreen sucks (n/m) - ztunerz 21:05:19 12/10/10 False. (n/m) - Only1Z 14:56:10 12/11/10 500 to 700 (n/m) - Dane (Houston) 00:44:37 12/10/10 how would power from .5 inch larger IC piping compare - Rogy 17:57:44 12/10/10 You haven't been paying attention have you? - CoHPhasor 19:54:56 12/10/10 thk you, I just needed a basis for comparison..words instead - Rogy 22:28:47 12/10/10 Hahah! No worries my friend :-D - CoHPhasor 02:11:10 12/11/10
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