Subject	He IS claiming more energy out than in.
Posted by	Keaner on June 25, 2008 at 2:19 PM
	This message has been viewed 151 times.
In Reply To	It has nothing to do with the laws of thermodynamics. posted by Jinjiro on June 25, 2008 at 12:58 PM
Message	The source of the hydrogen is electrolysis (~40% efficiency in some of the best circumstances). The power for the electrolysis is coming from the battery. The battery is powered by the alternator, which is a power generator, which at best has a 95% efficiency. The physical motion to power the alternator comes from a gasoline-combustion engine, which is about 50% efficiency. Meaning, you will get worse gas mileage by installing this. Anyone who believes this guy by now is a moron. He has been debunked a dozen times, selling snake-oil to hapless morons. Last I heard he was claiming the military was paying him to put this into one of their Hummers, yet the military claims absolutely no affiliation with this guy, has no financial records that point to this guy, etc.
Follow Ups	HHO/Hydro Fuel conversion in a Z yet? - tsm2a 08:39:17 06/25/08 Re: HHO/Hydro Fuel conversion in a Z yet? - Z_Cherub 08:49:41 06/25/08 The only problems I see with it... - Waggz 09:12:11 06/25/08 Like ethanol? (n/m) - Z_Cherub 09:20:13 06/25/08 The benefits of ethanol are highly questionable also, when - zellamay 09:24:22 06/25/08 As it stands now, - Z_Cherub 09:35:12 06/25/08 Ethanol is the dragon in Heroin Hero (n/m) - BigTDogg (MA) 16:39:20 06/25/08 Good invention >>>> - 300ZMang 09:41:20 06/25/08 Where does it go after absorbtion? Is the end result still - Z_Cherub 09:44:31 06/25/08 Well yes, of course it would have to be safe in order - 300ZMang 10:59:07 06/25/08 ... - Z_Cherub 11:05:49 06/25/08 I meant safe for the environment and safe meaning - 300ZMang 12:10:46 06/25/08 ... - rufflez 11:58:06 06/25/08 It would be like Viagara for Z's - 300ZMang 12:12:07 06/25/08 As I said in the other thread, regardless of what everyone - Jinjiro 09:52:34 06/25/08 The only way it might possibly work is that the water vapour - olyar15 12:11:51 06/25/08 While I do agree that driving conservatively is a huge - Jinjiro 12:55:20 06/25/08 Its called a confirmation bias, mixed with the embarassment - Keaner 14:23:57 06/25/08 it's a scam (n/m) - aliaZ 09:39:59 06/25/08 On THIS forum, we obey the LAWS of Thermodynamics! (n/m) - Keaner 11:56:43 06/25/08 It has nothing to do with the laws of thermodynamics. - Jinjiro 12:58:23 06/25/08 He IS claiming more energy out than in. - Keaner 14:19:14 06/25/08 Please provide links. (n/m) - AZHeat 14:32:51 06/25/08 Short googling says: - Keaner 14:45:58 06/25/08 Here's my question, and I sincerely don't know the answer: - Jinjiro 14:32:57 06/25/08 Yes, an alternator is harder to turn with load - Keaner 14:42:55 06/25/08 Thanks for clearing that up. (n/m) - Jinjiro 14:48:08 06/25/08 it's claimed at least a 20% mpg increase. (n/m) - SuparexTT 10:21:01 06/26/08 Yes, it takes more torque to turn an alternator - AZHeat 14:53:04 06/25/08 Looks like you snagged two fish with the Simpsons quote - SeedyROM 13:03:40 06/25/08 Re: Looks like you snagged two fish with the Simpsons quote - AZHeat 13:37:30 06/25/08 Based on AZHeat's past, he doesn't surprise me, - Keaner 14:20:48 06/25/08 Who? (n/m) - SeedyROM 14:23:02 06/25/08 AZHeat has been fairly gullible/foolish here before - Keaner 14:26:10 06/25/08 I'm not so much defending it as I am intrigued. I was very - Jinjiro 14:35:35 06/25/08 It doesn't work, its been proven over and over that it wont. (n/m) - Keaner 14:39:19 06/25/08 You haven't yet provided link for HHO conversion - AZHeat 14:47:47 06/25/08 I did a quick googling above-- - Keaner 14:49:29 06/25/08 Well when it doesn't work I will be sure to let you know I - Jinjiro 14:51:47 06/25/08 Introducing more than very small amounts of hydrogen - Keaner 14:59:37 06/25/08 I read up on hydrogen embrittlement, but as you said the - Jinjiro 15:06:36 06/25/08 FYI- I think when mythbusters did the hydrogen thing - Keaner 15:09:20 06/25/08 Did you ever see the one where they replicated the - AZHeat 15:20:50 06/25/08 Never heard of him (n/m) - SeedyROM 14:56:31 06/25/08 He's the one that kicks your teeth in when you - AZHeat 15:28:26 06/25/08 Darn, who pissed in your corn flakes this morning? (n/m) - Keaner 16:15:01 06/25/08 Hey ass wipe! I am not falling for it. I am open - AZHeat 14:30:34 06/25/08 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermodynamics (n/m) - Keaner 14:39:43 06/25/08 your mind is so open that all intelligent thought leaked out (n/m) - ZEngineer 14:45:35 06/25/08 Don't quit your so called "Engineer" day job. Shall I - AZHeat 14:56:23 06/25/08 I'm as prone to asking dumb questions as anyone else - ZEngineer 15:00:46 06/25/08 Good,the STFU. Mister,"I ask stupid engineer type questions" (n/m) - AZHeat 15:14:06 06/25/08 *yawn* (n/m) - ZEngineer 15:18:10 06/25/08 That is such a childish reply, even a 3rd grader would be - Dave N 15:21:18 06/25/08 That's a gem of a statement right there... - PennStateZ (VA) 15:25:26 06/25/08 Look here... - Barry (NJ) 09:41:05 06/26/08 There is already a running vehicles who are on it. - AZHeat 12:46:02 06/25/08 Where are these "running vehicles" ? Who is the "inventor"? - zellamay 13:16:58 06/25/08 I'm not sure what he was referring to, but the devices I am - Jinjiro 13:27:07 06/25/08 Re: Where are these "running vehicles" ? Who is the "inventor"? - Llamaz 13:30:51 06/25/08 Here on you tube, He is also developing a HUMMER for the - AZHeat 13:35:22 06/25/08 "Forget presenting my findings to National Geographics - ZEngineer 14:48:54 06/25/08 Yep, demanding proof of why it doesn't work, - Keaner 14:51:46 06/25/08 I never said it worked . I was open to the idea. Your - AZHeat 14:54:30 06/25/08 A- That wiki article is dead-accurate, if you can find - Keaner 14:56:47 06/25/08 Tell him to reference his thermo book if he doesn't like it. (n/m) - PennStateZ (VA) 15:13:12 06/25/08 let's play: Find the flaw - ZEngineer 14:58:23 06/25/08 I am stating what is on the news clip dumb ass! - AZHeat 15:11:24 06/25/08 cool, so when are you going to try it and get back to us? (n/m) - ZEngineer 15:18:56 06/25/08 That company is local to me. I will do some more research - AZHeat 15:22:19 06/25/08 "to hear a duck quack, press 2" (n/m) - zfreak(Dallas) 18:50:20 06/25/08 Makes sense... - BradZ (FL) 14:54:05 06/25/08 you all seem to be doubting the hydrogen/gas setup. - SuparexTT 10:15:55 06/26/08
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