Subject	sure it is
Posted by	cafenated on November 04, 2004 at 2:22 PM
	This message has been viewed 90 times.
In Reply To	Wrong. The issue is not nearly that simple. posted by Marshall on November 04, 2004 at 02:12 PM
Message	do you think customers want to buy some RVM crap versus giving the money to somebody reputable who spent the R&D time? If I had the choice between a $200 set of ebay headers vs $600 for a set of stillen headers, the choice is easy. However, if I had the choice between a $280 set of greg d headers and a $200 set of ebay ones, greg would have my check in a heartbeat. And as for a real job, I have one. Working 60 hours a week, for shitty pay, I see no reason to pay somebody 300 dollars an hour. don't eat yellow snow
Follow Ups	Captain Losing Battle strikes again - SeedyROM 13:02:32 11/04/04 well said (n/m) - Luke@tirerack 13:09:12 11/04/04 Good point... - College Boy 13:09:31 11/04/04 Yeah, it's not just that one example of pipes though - SeedyROM 13:11:55 11/04/04 Thing is that I added up the price for what i want... - College Boy 13:18:45 11/04/04 True of the Midori upper arms getting copied also - Technomancer 13:40:49 11/04/04 That slides because the product isn't made anymore - SeedyROM 13:51:00 11/04/04 Re: That slides because the product isn't made anymore - Ionic (www.IonicDynamics.com) 14:04:18 11/04/04 Exploitation of someone elses design is your forte. All of - Zeorymer 23:55:33 11/04/04 Re: Exploitation of someone elses design is your forte. All of - Ionic (www.IonicDynamics.com) 14:05:33 11/05/04 i just read that off the original thread, its sad... (n/m) - mousersix (San Antonio) 13:10:48 11/04/04 I understand your point and what you are saying - ZXRider 13:18:17 11/04/04 Here Here! (n/m) - boileralum 13:32:40 11/04/04 Please stop whining. - Kenny 13:38:02 11/04/04 You don't have to read it if you don't like it - SeedyROM 13:45:28 11/04/04 Re: You don't have to read it if you don't like it - Kenny 13:59:21 11/04/04 Here you go>>> - SeedyROM 14:10:13 11/04/04 I agree. - Kenny 14:16:16 11/04/04 Works for me - SeedyROM 14:47:17 11/04/04 How do you patent something you didn't invent??? (n/m) - Zeorymer 23:30:13 11/04/04 Remember, if the design is different and the old style is - SeedyROM 00:17:02 11/05/04 it generally takes a minumum of 2 years to recieve a patent. - ni[X]it 13:51:07 11/04/04 Patent pending does afford you legal protection. (n/m) - Kenny 14:05:00 11/04/04 "patent pending" has no legal significance - aliaZ 16:42:55 11/04/04 Looks like my source was wrong =(. ack. (n/m) - Kenny 17:14:58 11/04/04 it just depends on the lawyer game (n/m) - SuparexTT 01:29:56 11/05/04 You are missing the point. - olyar15 13:54:31 11/04/04 Z33 ? Just look how they are reproducing the 350Z parts. - govaardz(Aruba) 16:09:53 11/04/04 And the point is, that market is growing, so even with - olyar15 16:34:43 11/04/04 Re: Please stop whining. - Ionic (www.IonicDynamics.com) 13:57:16 11/04/04 Re: Re: Please stop whining. - Kenny 14:07:35 11/04/04 Here is the catch, and it's a major one: - Marshall 14:02:55 11/04/04 Right... - Kenny 14:06:53 11/04/04 Usually the costs to enforce a patent outweigh - Ionic (www.IonicDynamics.com) 14:24:12 11/04/04 Please provide some objective data to back up your argument. - Kenny 14:29:27 11/04/04 Re: Please provide some objective data to back up your argument. - kuah@splparts.com 15:05:13 11/04/04 One simple example: - Ionic (www.IonicDynamics.com) 15:06:37 11/04/04 Excellent information, thank you both (this goes for Kuah 2) (n/m) - Kenny 15:21:13 11/04/04 Great post - SeedyROM 15:39:01 11/04/04 I think the twin dump downpipe had been around for - colocomp (Denver) 14:24:45 11/04/04 Correct and correct. You can not patent a product once it - Scotts94z32 14:28:31 11/04/04 The split pipes for the Z32 has been around before - govaardz(Aruba) 16:02:55 11/04/04 seconded. - ni[X]it 13:46:01 11/04/04 Yeah, too bad you don't have any products that would - boileralum 13:48:49 11/04/04 actually, as I remember he does... (n/m) - Technomancer 13:56:36 11/04/04 unfortunantly, the plenum is not much a secret... - ni[X]it 13:59:29 11/04/04 I was also thinking of the rear diffuser project (n/m) - Technomancer 14:04:06 11/04/04 wow. good memory. - ni[X]it 14:07:25 11/04/04 I hope the redesigned plenum isn't [X]'ed. That could be a - whitepearlz (Defi Whore) 14:21:46 11/04/04 Just on hold until I get the time and money, - ni[X]it 14:42:38 11/04/04 I just contacted a friend at a machineshop - red300zxtt 14:46:43 11/04/04 Sounds good, Nixit. But please do keep us updated.. this is - whitepearlz (Defi Whore) 21:55:57 11/04/04 thats interesting, Im just custom fitting some 76mm throttle - ZisLuv 23:22:26 11/04/04 No I dont think so, I would support greg if his downpipes - red300zxtt 13:56:43 11/04/04 No one even dignify him a response - SeedyROM 14:02:20 11/04/04 unfortunately you are just one of many groupies here - red300zxtt 14:06:00 11/04/04 Re: unfortunately - ni[X]it 14:10:47 11/04/04 id gladly place bets on tested, proven, and highly>> - mousersix (San Antonio) 16:07:26 11/04/04 ITS NOT A COPY, he uses rebadged magnaflow cans - red300zxtt 17:26:49 11/04/04 Actually he uses Sebring mufflers - trackstar 20:44:16 11/04/04 which are magnaflows........ (n/m) - red300zxtt 20:55:41 11/04/04 He only recently only used Sebring. I have Magnaflows from - Zeorymer 23:20:20 11/04/04 you seem to be defending this guy to the death - mousersix (San Antonio) 02:10:02 11/05/04 you're wrong, stop posting. - red300zxtt 07:53:48 11/05/04 Re: you're wrong, stop posting. - mousersix (San Antonio) 10:25:46 11/05/04 Golf clap..... tell it like it is! :) (n/m) - Zeorymer 23:16:27 11/04/04 You ever figure out what a box-end wrench is? (n/m) - Snoguitar 14:23:07 11/04/04 Why don't YOU take a second to tell us what you know - Scotts94z32 14:25:57 11/04/04 dont take it personal but... - TARGETZ 14:35:30 11/04/04 I just checked my profile, I'm safe :) (n/m) - ni[X]it 14:38:01 11/04/04 Im not :-) - TARGETZ 14:41:36 11/04/04 No you are not (n/m) - kuah@splparts.com 19:03:43 11/04/04 No offense taken... some answers... - Scotts94z32 15:00:12 11/04/04 Dear Scott, I'd kill for dp's with external exhaust turbine - Kenny 15:06:59 11/04/04 Ask Santa, he may have lower overhead.. ;p (n/m) - Scotts94z32 15:10:41 11/04/04 Re: Ask Santa, he may have lower overhead.. ;p - Kenny 15:22:46 11/04/04 Ask Greg about these and see what he tells you. - Woody75 (Denver) 15:44:30 11/04/04 Mine is the first and only design. Greg can improve - AzHeat 16:00:25 11/04/04 Guy in Austrailia has a set up as well. - Woody75 (Denver) 16:25:20 11/04/04 Couldn't you just modify existing split down pipes? (n/m) - College Boy 15:55:58 11/04/04 I certainly couldn't =). That may be a good starting... - Kenny 16:46:03 11/04/04 LOL - but that makes no sense either - why would you spend - Unluky (MO) 14:56:51 11/04/04 Re: LOL - but that makes no sense either - why would you spend - ni[X]it 15:04:32 11/04/04 Oh, please, you look for validation for your thoughts all - AzHeat 15:10:03 11/04/04 Please be careful where you step Micheal. - ni[X]it 15:16:31 11/04/04 Ease up there Az - SeedyROM 15:35:49 11/04/04 Didn't mean to responed to you Nix-but anyway - to me - Unluky (MO) 15:21:34 11/04/04 the fact of the matter is that charging so much - cafenated 13:50:54 11/04/04 Our cars have TWO of nearly everything, don't forget that - SeedyROM 14:00:33 11/04/04 2 of everything but 4 times the price - cafenated 14:11:12 11/04/04 Call up Labree and ask them how long it takes - SeedyROM 14:22:25 11/04/04 Perfectly said, materials and labor are only a small part - Ionic (www.IonicDynamics.com) 14:33:19 11/04/04 Yea whatever, here are the things to come: Greed - red300zxtt 14:40:41 11/04/04 Hey, IF you were right, no one would buy the stuff - SeedyROM 14:58:06 11/04/04 I can assure you that he wont - red300zxtt 15:09:10 11/04/04 Riiiiight (n/m) - SeedyROM 15:16:04 11/04/04 2nd. (n/m) - Snoguitar 15:18:24 11/04/04 The initial R&D is insignificant if you price your product - cafenated 14:53:57 11/04/04 In a limited market (Z32s), R&D costs are everything. (n/m) - ni[X]it 14:59:26 11/04/04 Exactly, and if you produce them in the sates the costs are - Ionic (www.IonicDynamics.com) 15:10:51 11/04/04 LOL... you are clueless (n/m) - Scotts94z32 14:35:55 11/04/04 ok...no - red300zxtt 14:14:59 11/04/04 your posts make my head hurt (n/m) - JuicycJ4(SWMO) 14:32:01 11/04/04 He's comparing it to an exhaust made for a - lakerdude42 14:33:19 11/04/04 Unfortunately you have no idea what you're talking about - red300zxtt 14:38:04 11/04/04 lol , I used the Enzo as an example of what - lakerdude42 14:48:33 11/04/04 would you like pics of my exhaust? - red300zxtt 14:55:07 11/04/04 damn, if labree is so shitty, why do so many people swear - mousersix (San Antonio) 21:17:13 11/04/04 Brain washed maybe. Possibly Low self-esteem w/ the need to - Zeorymer 23:42:54 11/04/04 If you don't see the connection then I'm not explaining it - SeedyROM 14:38:50 11/04/04 A note about the $700 Jspec Tails price... - YugoBernie (NoVA) 14:21:15 11/04/04 Thanks Bernie, I could have used a better example - SeedyROM 14:24:56 11/04/04 Agreed. (n/m) - YugoBernie (NoVA) 14:25:35 11/04/04 ...and I can't help but think some of the other vendors... - Kenny 14:26:05 11/04/04 Indeed, I said that here: - SeedyROM 14:29:23 11/04/04 The costs of most metals has gone up ~25-50% over the past - Scotts94z32 14:37:54 11/04/04 there was other venders too - TARGETZ 14:29:43 11/04/04 Yep. I remember when the JSpec facia was around $1000 - ENVYMYZ 15:02:34 11/04/04 And Bernie what about the 99 jspec sideskirts ? - govaardz(Aruba) 16:12:04 11/04/04 They really cost that much. (n/m) - YugoBernie (NoVA) 16:17:50 11/04/04 Would it be legal to copy those ? And also make them for the - govaardz(Aruba) 16:19:54 11/04/04 Reproduction body panels are all over the market, no law - YugoBernie (NoVA) 16:29:43 11/04/04 Why are JWT ecu's still $695? They haven't - AzHeat 14:24:23 11/04/04 They are nuts - SeedyROM 14:37:27 11/04/04 Wrong. The issue is not nearly that simple. - Marshall 14:12:52 11/04/04 sure it is - cafenated 14:22:03 11/04/04 Actually, yes. - SeedyROM 14:35:28 11/04/04 Re: Actually, yes. - cafenated 14:46:39 11/04/04 Please read my ENTIRE message - SeedyROM 14:53:32 11/04/04 I did read your entire message - cafenated 14:55:43 11/04/04 Okay, I'll make it more clear - SeedyROM 15:04:47 11/04/04 Finally, a statement you made that I can partially agree - red300zxtt 15:14:27 11/04/04 Here, I have an offer for you>>> - SeedyROM 15:24:41 11/04/04 k that's nice, my craptacular ebay downpipes - red300zxtt 15:48:56 11/04/04 How about you call him and record the conversaton... - Snoguitar 16:01:50 11/04/04 Bro.. it's WIDGET... spell it with me. W-I-D-G-E-T - Smurf Z 16:16:35 11/04/04 R&D? i don't think so. (n/m) - Zeorymer 23:49:16 11/04/04 Unless you mean.... - Zeorymer 00:07:18 11/05/04 you mean - TARGETZ 14:16:14 11/04/04 Yep! Some reputable vendors here are guilty of it too. - SeedyROM 14:24:04 11/04/04 Re: Yep! Some reputable vendors here are guilty of it too. - TARGETZ 14:28:43 11/04/04 I wasn't able to :( - SeedyROM 14:31:59 11/04/04 I think the problem was - TARGETZ 14:38:33 11/04/04 That may be - SeedyROM 14:40:00 11/04/04 About the arms - govaardz(Aruba) 15:08:26 11/04/04 wow thanks for the link! Just ordered myself a pair. (n/m) - red300zxtt 15:16:38 11/04/04 Re: you mean - kuah@splparts.com 14:45:56 11/04/04 Thanks for clarifying that - SeedyROM 14:49:32 11/04/04 (extensive) rumor has it, - ni[X]it 14:54:49 11/04/04 Re: (extensive) rumor has it, - kuah@splparts.com 15:23:04 11/04/04 New Thread on patents - dvlhntr 00:41:24 11/05/04 Well a subframe bushing can't be made different. (n/m) - govaardz(Aruba) 15:27:49 11/04/04 I was looking at old Options Mag. in 1996 and - Spongerider :) 16:03:05 11/04/04 Exactly.... - govaardz(Aruba) 16:15:00 11/04/04 Re: Re: you mean - TARGETZ 14:56:30 11/04/04 Kuah's parts are made in Japan - govaardz(Aruba) 15:01:28 11/04/04 How about... - dpjax 18:39:46 11/04/04 Re: Re: Re: you mean - kuah@splparts.com 15:43:31 11/04/04 I guess that is the legal question - TARGETZ 17:28:35 11/04/04 You know, I was going to buy the Ebay ones till you posted - aggiez32 14:28:56 11/04/04 All I have to say is....WERD (n/m) - RAGTPZ(OH) 14:38:52 11/04/04 NAFTA baby. It's not just jobs going over seas, it's the - DougG 14:39:22 11/04/04 NAFTA is only North America. (n/m) - Marshall 14:43:41 11/04/04 2nd-Nothing to do with China/Japan that are kicking our butt (n/m) - Unluky (MO) 15:03:56 11/04/04 they aren't kicking our butt. - Marshall 15:11:12 11/04/04 Yeah-go look our export/import levels. They are a joke. - Unluky (MO) 15:34:46 11/04/04 Re: Yeah-go look our export/import levels. They are a joke. - Dustin 15:44:21 11/04/04 People like you want to see the USA fail. - Marshall 16:28:00 11/04/04 Get off your high horse dude - stating the facts does not - Unluky (MO) 17:05:57 11/04/04 I never said this: - Marshall 09:57:16 11/05/04 You are exactly right. I just didn't want to have to - DougG 15:55:47 11/04/04 NAFTA was not expanded worldwide. Don't know where - Dustin 16:19:56 11/04/04 Didn't read it. Lived it. About a year after NAFTA was - DougG 19:52:18 11/04/04 Wow. interesting discussion. I think you are going to be - SwatsavZ 14:41:16 11/04/04 Oh, that hit landed! Japanese auto industry - Technomancer 14:46:35 11/04/04 And they only excelled because they made them "better" - SeedyROM 14:52:15 11/04/04 Excellent point. They not only made them better, they - DougG 16:03:14 11/04/04 Let's not forget they also made things people actually - dilo 18:08:45 11/04/04 lol, i feel what you're saying. I have conflicting - SwatsavZ 14:52:25 11/04/04 hahaha (n/m) - red300zxtt 14:51:01 11/04/04 Are you going to ride coattails all day long? (n/m) - SeedyROM 14:55:16 11/04/04 What'd you expect? That's what this whole thread is about! (n/m) - Technomancer 14:57:01 11/04/04 ROFL! Touche :) (n/m) - SeedyROM 14:58:45 11/04/04 I just bought a fantastic pair of smoked turn signals - red300zxtt 14:58:20 11/04/04 Good for you - SeedyROM 15:00:00 11/04/04 This whole thread should be nuked. (n/m) - red300zxtt 15:22:49 11/04/04 Use your VTD rights. (n/m) - SeedyROM 15:36:17 11/04/04 Too busy shopping on ebay for Z parts, sorry. (n/m) - red300zxtt 15:38:44 11/04/04 Don't like it? Don't read / post in it. (n/m) - Smurf Z 15:49:56 11/04/04 You can't expect consumers to pay more... - dpjax 18:41:35 11/04/04 Too bad they arent really "smoked" lol - ENVYMYZ 15:10:08 11/04/04 he's worthless (n/m) - Red300ztt96 15:39:19 11/04/04 i must concur (n/m) - mousersix (San Antonio) 21:01:51 11/04/04 LOL - good call. We are bashing people for buying parts - Unluky (MO) 15:07:16 11/04/04 Wow, you must be proud....dumbass (n/m) - SaVageZ™ 00:50:58 11/05/04 ?????????? - SwatsavZ 09:30:45 11/05/04 Why don't you just patent your "innovative" products? (n/m) - TWINTURBONICK 14:59:43 11/04/04 Read this section of thread for your answer: - SeedyROM 15:02:06 11/04/04 read the thread moron. (n/m) - ni[X]it 15:02:33 11/04/04 They will copy it anyways. - govaardz(Aruba) 15:03:33 11/04/04 Exactly. (n/m) - SeedyROM 15:05:35 11/04/04 Hotshot was having issues with their headers being copied... - Crim 15:11:39 11/04/04 Absolutely! But ask them now if they'd do it again - SeedyROM 15:13:21 11/04/04 I understand, but there is nothing you can do - silver_fairlady 15:12:19 11/04/04 "Lost Cause" :) (n/m) - SeedyROM 15:16:44 11/04/04 Seedy vs. Capitalism. - AzHeat 15:38:33 11/04/04 Way to whittle it down :) (n/m) - SeedyROM 15:41:26 11/04/04 A list of ebay copies - govaardz(Aruba) 15:41:43 11/04/04 Nobody said it was fair. Fair and capitalism are - AzHeat 15:54:05 11/04/04 agreed (n/m) - Spee 16:52:26 11/04/04 I'm afraid the US is in a bad position. Let me sum it up. - Marshall 17:17:10 11/04/04 Very interesting topic. - RSR 19:01:25 11/04/04 Re: Very interesting topic. - Marshall 07:09:59 11/05/04 With this one I agree with you big time SeedyROM - cafenated 10:11:09 11/05/04 Eventually things will equalize - Guy (SoCal) 17:50:43 11/04/04 They will, but it could take hundreds of years. - Marshall 07:17:41 11/05/04 Repost. (n/m) - hoss 19:29:47 11/04/04 I know for a fact that other countries like Australia were - Zeorymer 23:27:47 11/04/04 And Japan - SeedyROM 00:15:46 11/05/04 my 2 cents..... with a new thread to come later - dvlhntr 00:49:56 11/05/04 goes to show you who the true car enthusiasts are - Polish 01:08:06 11/05/04
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