Subject	I think you are confusing what I am saying, that's all.
Posted by	AshsZ on February 05, 2004 at 5:32 PM
	This message has been viewed 116 times.
In Reply To	And he's right. If you disagree, you're wrong. posted by Marshall on February 05, 2004 at 05:26 PM
Message	If all conditions were always equal and optimal with the exception of traction, then you are correct - braking potential will be limited to the tire. However, you are only looking at it as a timeslice rather than in a real-world situation. Here's a good example of what I mean: Car #1: Stock brakes. Take her to 120MPH and stand on the brakes. At around 50MPH, you will begin experiencing sever brake fade - to the point that you cannot push hard enough on the brake pedal to overcome the fade, and your stopping distance is no longer based on your tires' traction. Car #2: Upgraded Brakes. Take her to 120MPH and stand on the brakes. The ABS system will buzz and chatter all the way to the point that the car actually stops moving, which will likely draw a difference of at least 40 feet shorter compared to the stock brake vehicle. Now in this comparison it was from 120MPH, which is excessive speed and could land you in jail.. Most people dont go this fast. So if you would like, take it to the mountains where you are driving the car no faster than ~60MPH but it is all braking, turning, and accellerating. Eventually the guy with stock brakes is going to overshoot a turn while trying to keep up with the guy that has upgraded brakes and he will not have a good day. Theory only gets you close. Testing in actual conditions tells all. [ ashleypowers.com ] [ agpowers@bellsouth.net ] [ Zemulator Information Sheet ] [ Z1 Motorsports Website ] Enthusiasts soon understand each other. --W. Irving. Are you an enthusiast? If you are out to describe the truth, leave elegance to the tailor. Albert Einstein
Follow Ups	How many of you guys have brake upgrades? - ZleppyZ 17:10:07 02/05/04 First question you have to ask yourself is, what do you - PA_Z 17:15:45 02/05/04 I disagree. I drive different Z's everyday and I have to - AshsZ 17:20:54 02/05/04 Everything you wrote agrees with what I said. Re-read - PA_Z 17:22:49 02/05/04 "Dont expect shorter stopping distances". That's what - AshsZ 17:23:57 02/05/04 And he's right. If you disagree, you're wrong. - Marshall 17:26:23 02/05/04 Well said. That was exactly my point, only you said it - PA_Z 17:32:18 02/05/04 I'm just going to break the ice and give this thread a nice - SpeedyTTZ 20:38:05 02/05/04 I think you are confusing what I am saying, that's all. - AshsZ 17:32:38 02/05/04 yeah, avoiding brake fade would be the primary reason - Marshall 17:37:09 02/05/04 Thankyou sir. =) (n/m) - AshsZ 17:38:56 02/05/04 For some, it's the *bling* factor. (n/m) - SactoTodd 17:53:42 02/05/04 *most. (n/m) - Kenny 17:57:46 02/05/04 For the enthusiast, its all about braking ability. :) (n/m) - AshsZ 18:05:47 02/05/04 unfortunately, you're right. (n/m) - Marshall 20:45:00 02/05/04 I considered a stoptech system, and decided that - BigTDogg (MA) 21:03:31 02/05/04 Like I said several posts back. You didn't disagree with - PA_Z 17:44:47 02/05/04 I dont know why I'm trying so hard here, but I guess - AshsZ 18:01:26 02/05/04 2nd..... more surface area = shorter stopping distance (n/m) - BooZted (soon supercharged) 17:27:01 02/05/04 Wrong. More surface area = more braking torque to the rotor - PA_Z 17:30:57 02/05/04 Wrong. When the brakes fade, you are no longer limited - AshsZ 17:36:10 02/05/04 If you re-read my post (again) you'll see that I acknowledge - PA_Z 17:46:46 02/05/04 I give up. You win, but you are wrong. (n/m) - AshsZ 18:04:24 02/05/04 *Double-Sigh* OK Ash... - PA_Z 18:14:51 02/05/04 where do you fit in? (n/m) - John@Z1 18:34:58 02/05/04 What's up ash, Bitch!?!? - Spongerider :) 18:52:54 02/05/04 Keep guessing... (n/m) - speedr300z (ATL) 00:07:59 02/06/04 Nice one>> - Spongerider :) 11:08:46 02/06/04 LOL, I know three others that do that too ;) (n/m) - ZBlacktt 12:32:42 02/06/04 Not sure I understand the question, John. - PA_Z 18:53:14 02/05/04 i would go elsewhere for that conversion. - Chris(NJ) 19:25:35 02/05/04 I'm beginning to think so too. So what do you think? - PA_Z 19:26:39 02/05/04 DIY! :) (n/m) - Guapo 19:29:56 02/05/04 LOL. Too afraid I'll screw it up + no time (2 young kids) :) (n/m) - PA_Z 19:33:18 02/05/04 oh, dont forget bernie too. he'll do it i'm sure (n/m) - Chris(NJ) 20:16:49 02/05/04 Bernie is da man =). (n/m) - Kenny 20:35:04 02/05/04 I'm up for it as long as we can lay out the logistics in a - YugoBernie (NoVA) 22:07:35 02/05/04 lol - RobWR14 19:31:18 02/05/04 it goes FAR beyond this post. (n/m) - Spee 19:52:38 02/05/04 either united auto sales, rich @ ztech, or shawn @ psr. - Chris(NJ) 19:51:38 02/05/04 2nd (n/m) - Spee 19:51:37 02/05/04 This is an argument on stock brakes vs. larger, upgraded - AshsZ 19:54:52 02/05/04 That's what I thought too, until John jumped in with - PA_Z 20:21:32 02/05/04 I hear you. - SactoTodd 18:49:38 02/05/04 Magazine reading pays off again! (n/m) - shirow 19:13:06 02/05/04 Yep. Makes sense. - PA_Z 19:29:35 02/05/04 It's not all about stopping distance. - RobWR14 19:26:38 02/05/04 I have no idea why this subthread exists Rob, because - PA_Z 19:30:40 02/05/04 lol- forgive me if I missed one of your posts (n/m) - RobWR14 19:32:02 02/05/04 Wrong. The brakes aren't the bottleneck. The rubber is. - Marshall 17:32:29 02/05/04 Up until brake fade kicks in, yeah. And trust me, - AshsZ 17:36:47 02/05/04 I know. I wasn't arguing against that aspect. - Marshall 17:38:50 02/05/04 The other day I was testdriving an NA-TT conversion - AshsZ 17:44:35 02/05/04 Actually, more surface area = higher heat capacity, - AshsZ 17:35:32 02/05/04 Nope. If you get more fade resistant pads, you'll stop - PA_Z 17:43:29 02/05/04 To a point... - Funky 17:47:18 02/05/04 True, but most people will not reach that point unless they - PA_Z 17:48:16 02/05/04 Yes, most people won't... - Funky 17:49:35 02/05/04 *Sigh* Didn't I say that in my original post? ;-) (n/m) - PA_Z 17:51:03 02/05/04 Probably, but that was so long ago... - Funky 17:52:24 02/05/04 True enough. I guess he figures that repeating the same - PA_Z 18:16:00 02/05/04 Bro, it has nothing to do with what I think. - AshsZ 19:58:28 02/05/04 Well at least we agree on one thing. (n/m) - PA_Z 20:19:59 02/05/04 I'm sorry, you aren't speaking from experience. >>> - AshsZ 17:49:11 02/05/04 The equation isn't that simple. - Kenny 17:55:20 02/05/04 ...until the cross-drilled rotors crack... =) (n/m) - safZ 20:17:58 02/05/04 I've had mine for 18 months roughly (I think)... - Kenny 20:34:17 02/05/04 you've had yours for 18 month's of street driving (n/m) - Guapo 20:37:04 02/05/04 True - but they have roughly 25k miles on them. (n/m) - Kenny 22:16:18 02/05/04 About 30months on my Stealin's sofar, no crack or warpage... - Snoguitar 21:08:56 02/05/04 I think you better do some research (n/m) - TARGETZ 21:00:33 02/05/04 Research? - safZ 07:05:19 02/06/04 Any rotor will eventually crack under severe usage... - Funky 12:08:41 02/06/04 Whee...another clusterfawk within a week =) (n/m) - SeedyROM (ZCON 2K4!) 19:51:40 02/05/04 Sorry for contributing to it, Ryan. I'm on edge this week - PA_Z 20:31:17 02/05/04 lol, don't apologize to me! The forum was kinda slow until - SeedyROM (ZCON 2K4!) 01:44:35 02/06/04 Not disagreeing with what you said PA_Z, but - Dan (Vancouver) 00:06:26 02/06/04 Z1 Motorsports 13" Big brakes: - AshsZ 17:18:33 02/05/04 When are you guys gonna start selling that kit? - michaelkih 17:57:21 02/05/04 Soon. We are waiting for the brakets to be built. - AshsZ 18:08:13 02/05/04 Are those floating rotors? or 2-piece non-floating? (n/m) - Funky 18:09:47 02/05/04 Re: How many of you guys have brake upgrades? - Funky 17:19:54 02/05/04 Agreed! - ScreemZ 18:00:53 02/05/04 sexiest sig evah. (n/m) - hoss 14:04:49 02/06/04 Stillen/AP Six Pots Here - Alex Lee [DE] 18:21:42 02/05/04 how do you feel about the front bias now w/ those ? (n/m) - Chris(NJ) 19:43:20 02/05/04 Stoptech... stop... period... (n/m) - Scotts94z32 18:51:24 02/05/04 Big $$$$, period. =) (n/m) - AshsZ 19:52:02 02/05/04 probably because they don't just throw big rotors on and - 3 double-0 ZX(Va Bch) 20:38:08 02/05/04 Did you read the braking contest in the latest USCC in SCC? - TTony 22:21:43 02/05/04 who cares about 1 stop from 60-0, really. That can be done - Scotts94z32 12:10:22 02/06/04 I spent a good bit of time making it all fit.. A bracket - AshsZ 10:30:53 02/06/04 How is the brake bias with the cobra setup? - Funky 12:19:02 02/06/04 you get what you pay for. (n/m) - Spee 20:53:42 02/05/04 2nd. (n/m) - Funky 22:49:31 02/05/04 That's what I hear.. (n/m) - AshsZ 10:06:44 02/06/04 That's exactly where this story "stops" (n/m) - Scotts94z32 16:30:19 02/06/04 Funny you ask. >> - Arnel(Z32R.com) 22:46:39 02/05/04 Werd. You won't question the price the 1st time you hit - YugoBernie (NoVA) 23:42:25 02/05/04 I agree 100% (n/m) - Funky 00:03:16 02/06/04 I do. Porsche Big Reds - FLYT300 02:16:07 02/06/04 I cut a hole in the floor and stick my feet into the ground. - RSR 06:49:01 02/06/04
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