Subject	It is not trivial
Posted by	Technomancer on January 06, 2004 at 1:52 PM
	This message has been viewed 139 times.
In Reply To	Quiz of the day (for the physics guys) posted by MaTT (90TT) on January 06, 2004 at 01:26 PM
Message	Basically you have to augment F=mu*N That equation is "for kids". It doesn't work very well for elastic substances. It also doesn't work if the substances exceed their shear threshold. Finally, contact patch increases in size with N (for small N) until the rididity of the tire vs deformations stops it. The end conclusion is that wider tires take longer to exceed their shear threshold. I will not do the intermediate steps for you, but it is a fun thought excercise. - John
Follow Ups	Quiz of the day (for the physics guys) - MaTT (90TT) 13:26:36 01/06/04 I'd SO love it if you could make your Sig bigger. (sarcasm) (n/m) - nixit 13:32:02 01/06/04 If you single-handedly answer the question I will. (n/m) - MaTT (90TT) 13:34:14 01/06/04 Surface area doesn't increase applied frictional force? (n/m) - Kenny 14 psi 13:35:49 01/06/04 Nope. - MaTT (90TT) 13:38:22 01/06/04 ff= asdfw x sad0f9 - Kenny 14 psi 13:41:42 01/06/04 um, no - MaTT (90TT) 13:43:36 01/06/04 In a two dimensional world, yes (n/m) - BigTDogg (MA) 13:46:30 01/06/04 explain... (n/m) - MaTT (90TT) 13:48:00 01/06/04 think of it this way bro - THAyz1 13:54:03 01/06/04 wrong. read technomancer's post, he puts us to shame. (n/m) - MaTT (90TT) 14:01:36 01/06/04 That's what left me scratching my head too. (n/m) - FlawleZ 13:38:44 01/06/04 It does, but is a far less significant factor than: - therinL 14:02:00 01/06/04 See, that was the problem. - MaTT (90TT) 14:05:30 01/06/04 It does, see my post below. (n/m) - PA_Z 16:57:30 01/06/04 Look - it's simple. - Kenny 14 psi 13:38:36 01/06/04 It doesn't work that way. (n/m) - MaTT (90TT) 13:39:35 01/06/04 Then how does it work? - Kenny 14 psi 13:50:58 01/06/04 I never said that, you need to stop replying. - MaTT (90TT) 13:53:59 01/06/04 You can't adhere strictly to text book physics... - The Sixth 13:52:50 01/06/04 So basically it's over my head >>> - MaTT (90TT) 13:56:40 01/06/04 Not to understand...no... - The Sixth 14:06:03 01/06/04 Re: Quiz of the day (for the physics guys) - nixit 13:44:50 01/06/04 but... - MaTT (90TT) 13:50:08 01/06/04 small flaw in that logic... - PhoenixZx 14:31:16 01/06/04 What about gravatational pull? - ZMEGOBY® 18:13:39 01/06/04 negligible (n/m) - MaTT (90TT) 22:27:23 01/06/04 try this - THAyz1 13:46:58 01/06/04 prove it though. - MaTT (90TT) 13:51:46 01/06/04 look at my other post (n/m) - THAyz1 13:54:49 01/06/04 Mu is dependent on the tire and surface you're on... - BigTDogg (MA) 13:52:24 01/06/04 I think it probably has something to do with the - RSR 13:52:44 01/06/04 agreed, sounds good to me. (n/m) - MaTT (90TT) 14:00:24 01/06/04 It is not trivial - Technomancer 13:52:55 01/06/04 Thank you!! Kenny 14 psi, please read this ^^ (n/m) - MaTT (90TT) 13:58:57 01/06/04 You're the one that assumed tires were solid objects. - Kenny 14 psi 14:07:02 01/06/04 correction - SactoTodd 14:17:48 01/06/04 People who live in glass houses should not throw stones. - Kenny 14 psi 14:50:01 01/06/04 lol (n/m) - colocomp (Denver) 14:59:33 01/06/04 your funny (n/m) - the3z 18:01:25 01/06/04 :raises hand: (n/m) - MaTT (90TT) 22:29:03 01/06/04 bingo (n/m) - BryZ32TT 14:11:10 01/06/04 agreed (n/m) - aliaZ 14:12:17 01/06/04 No offense, but that logic, as with 99% of what highschool - SAHTT 14:05:12 01/06/04 Yeah, high school physics sucks ;) too many absolutes. (n/m) - MaTT (90TT) 14:06:47 01/06/04 YES!!! What he said :) (n/m) - The Sixth 14:07:52 01/06/04 ....design of experiments....understand interactions... (n/m) - RSR 14:33:34 01/06/04 All good points. You also have wear and heat to worry about. - Marshall 14:16:48 01/06/04 ...good point about heat dissipation... (n/m) - RSR 14:35:29 01/06/04 Absolutely right. That's why bigger brake kits do NOT, - PA_Z 15:52:50 01/06/04 Not going to touch the tire one... - 90Z-NA ( ATL ) 14:20:30 01/06/04 Yeah - Marshall 14:29:50 01/06/04 wider tires provide an advantage in acceleration, because - JC_NS 14:39:36 01/06/04 I mean braking. (n/m) - JC_NS 14:47:24 01/06/04 not true - Technomancer 14:55:00 01/06/04 Correct - ZBlacktt 15:01:16 01/06/04 I thought they did tire ratings based on actual performance. (n/m) - Kenny 14 psi 15:14:44 01/06/04 Overall characteristics and classification, yes. - ZBlacktt 15:24:50 01/06/04 They why the hell don't these guys use bicycle tires? - Kenny 14 psi 15:09:32 01/06/04 I think we are all getting a little ridiculous here. (n/m) - T0M 15:18:28 01/06/04 very small contact patch - Technomancer 16:01:23 01/06/04 So smaller tires are better for drag racing? You're a tard. (n/m) - Kenny 14 psi 08:39:57 01/07/04 2nd.....BUT drag racing is boring (n/m) - NR98 (soon) 08:45:15 01/07/04 be careful whom you follow - Technomancer 11:31:49 01/07/04 Ok. Bicycle tires are the best. Gotcha. (n/m) - Kenny 14 psi 16:52:23 01/07/04 Tires are not solid objects. That law does not apply. - Kenny 14 psi 08:46:30 01/07/04 You simply don't read very well. - Technomancer 10:32:47 01/07/04 Wrong. (n/m) - Kenny 14 psi 16:51:50 01/07/04 hahaha (n/m) - MaTT (90TT) 19:03:45 01/07/04 Look at Clutches,6 pucks owns full disc,4 puck owns 6 puck - ZBlacktt 14:57:51 01/06/04 Does your question take friction material into consideration - Dave N 15:11:44 01/06/04 Coeff. of Fric. is not the same between different compounds. (n/m) - Kenny 14 psi 15:13:22 01/06/04 Yes, but 6 pads same materiel better than 8? - ZBlacktt 15:21:37 01/06/04 Don't forget, Fn = Pressure * Area, and... - PA_Z 16:00:12 01/06/04 I though it had to do with application and use. - ZBlacktt 16:18:21 01/06/04 Same weight, larger surface area, more traction. - AshsZ 18:36:01 01/06/04 hm... - MaTT (90TT) 22:39:03 01/06/04 Tech argued smaller tires are better for dragracing. - Kenny 14 psi 08:41:04 01/07/04 Never said that once. - Technomancer 10:34:30 01/07/04 Here's the quote: - Kenny 14 psi 16:50:46 01/07/04 "narrower" does not equal "smaller area" - Technomancer 09:10:09 01/08/04 Tech's posts use a formula for solid (non-elastic) objects. - Kenny 14 psi 08:48:22 01/07/04 My post *specifically* says that F=mu*N does not apply - Technomancer 10:33:53 01/07/04 Nope. - Kenny 14 psi 16:54:14 01/07/04 Curious... - MaTT (90TT) 19:06:32 01/07/04 I didn't take the ACT. I did take the SAT however. - Kenny 14 psi 23:11:24 01/07/04 Congratulations. I have a Ph.D. in physics... - Technomancer 09:27:00 01/08/04 Okay. - Kenny 14 psi 10:47:01 01/08/04 ok - Technomancer 11:40:05 01/08/04 I will. - Kenny 14 psi 11:46:09 01/08/04
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