TwinTurbo.NET: Nissan 300ZX forum - Here it is...THE (not quite) ULTIMATE TURBO DYNO COMPARISON!
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Subject Here it is...THE (not quite) ULTIMATE TURBO DYNO COMPARISON!
     
Posted by Bernie (OOParts International) on September 26, 2003 at 11:29 PM
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Message (kind of rant-mode on)
One major problem I've noticed over all of my years here on Twinturbo.net is that the average joe has no clue how to properly interpret data. If anybody shows a dyno and proclaims, "Look, our special brand X makes Y more horsepower compared to brand Z!", that people will generally believe it to be true. Now, maybe it's the trained scientist in me (Ph.D. in Molecular & Cellular Pharmacology, studying the subtype-dependent potentiation of neuronal nicotinic acetylcholine receptors by zinc), but it really offends me that people would post such nonsense. This is perpetuated by the bozos at car magazines who do a SINGLE baseline run and a SINGLE post-mod run and claim that the 2 hp difference seen is a significant difference. These charlatan-like assertions are just plain laughable... any number of things could cause these miniscule differences (car cooled off while installing part, original part being replaced was dirty/malfunctioning, etc.) If you want to truly make claims that are at least somewhat reasonable, you need to have MULTIPLE runs with the same condition to find averages and trends. This problem rears its ugly head again when people make speculations here and there about how these turbos compare to those turbos.
(kind of rant mode off)

Anyways, here is a compilation of dynos which I've pulled off of TT.net over the course of a few years where I've plotted the averages for multiple dynos. No, this is nowhere near ideal because individual cars may have vastly different setups. HOWEVER, given enough curves to compare, you should be able to throw out the outlying curves and get a general idea of what the shape of the curve should look like. Some dynos only have 2 curves and that's not necessarily worth much unless the curves are nearly identical. I also threw on an average of multiple stage V dynos to compare each turbo to. I've also added my thoughts and opinions after each dyno. I only plotted horsepower because trying to distill the raw data from poorly scanned dynos at 200 rpm intervals is a pain in the rear and I didn't want to do twice the work just to plot torque. I tried to use dynos where the owners mostly use race gas and as much boost as possible. However, due to slight variations of peak boost, peak horsepower may not be entirely accurate... but, the true beauty of these dynos is that you can do a fairly good job of comparing spool up because that's not dependent on max boost. I was not aware of any conditions which may have hindered any of these dynos, so if you believe a curve should not be included, please let me know. Hopefully this database will give people a "goal" for what their curves should look like and aid in tuning.




Smallest turbo of the group... basically stock spool characteristics. Awesome turbo.




Seems like there's a bit more lag compared to the Sport500's. Only curves I have are from Seb... one with stock manifolds, the other with the super-delicious Inconel exhaust manifolds. Does anybody know if the Sport500 dyno and Sport530 dyno were on the same car? Anyways, remember what I said about seeing single dynos... not necessarily a true representation of what a product really does. If anybody has any more Sport530 dynos, I'd love to add them.




OMG, these turbos are laggy... if you check out the last overall comparison, you'll see that they lag as much as the TD05-18G's, but only give you Sport500 level peak power. Yuck!




Again, the sample size is only ONE... this dyno is not necessarily representative of what these turbos are really capable of. Still, all the same I thought I'd throw it in just for fun.




I like this dyno the best... and why's that?... because there is a LARGE sample pool! Here's a perfect example of how having lots of data will overcome outlying curves. Look at Daryl's curve... it looks a bit laggier than everybody elses... but, in the end it doesn't matter because if I exclude his curve, the average only shifts by like 10 rpm. Also, here's another thing that really irks me... for all you guys out there that say "the GT2530's have practically stock like lag"... the clearly do NOT! Everybody knows me for being the first person on TT.net (and probably in the U.S.) to have the turbos. My writeup has probably sold more GT2530's than any advertising that HKS has done since. Anyways, from day one, I have always stated that these are definitely laggier than stock... and here's the proof.



again, only 1 curve... interpret at your own risk.



Here's the second best chart of the group in terms of the number of curves on it. I'm not sure what the difference is between the 2 curves from Zo... I just know one is from earlier and then he did something and then the other is from later on (and it's not his 16g to 18 g switch). Nice turbos... the Greddy manifolds really help with the spool up. It's almost as good as the GT2530 spool up.



Big turbo = big lag = big power... enough said.



OK, this is just all of the averages thrown together. DO NOT TAKE THIS CHART SERIOUSLY! Some of the curves are averages of multiple dynos and some are just from single dynos (PE1420, Sport600, Sport530).



Here's the grand finale...

This curve can be taken somewhat seriously. All of the curves are the averages of multiple dynos. And, lo and behold, it came out exactly how we might imagine it would.
Lag:
1st place: Sport 500's = near stock
2nd place: HKS GT2530's = not nearly close to stock lag levels, but easily the best of all the turbos out there producing 500+rwhp (might not be true if Silvertwin's Sport600 dyno holds up).
3rd place: TD05-16G's = exhaust manifolds help the spool up... still not as good as GT2530's for lag, but in the real world, probably not much difference in terms of lag.
4th place tie: TD05-18G's and T25-28's = Man... definitely surprised me... I knew the T25-28 lag wouldn't be all that great, but to be the same as a turbo making almost 50% more horsepower is simply not acceptable.

Horsepower
As we always expected... stock, Sport500/T25-28,GT2530,TD05-16g,TD05-18g

So, in conclusion, please notify me of any errors you may have found (especially the owners of the dynos I used in this analysis). Also, I'd like to keep expanding this comparison and change it from the "not quite ultimate" to the "ultimate" comparison. For that, I'll need some help though. If you have a dyno that I did not include, please post it here or e-mail it to me WITH your own breakdown of the raw numbers in 200 rpm intervals from 2000rpm to 7000 rpm in the following format....

RPM,HP
2000, 50
2200, 60
2400, 75
etc...

This will greatly help ease the process. If you don't give me the raw numbers, then I will not be including it because I simply don't have the time to do it myself.

Also, provide me with boost level and mods if possible. Thanks everyone!

Bernie, U.S. sales rep for...

Current Specials:
ConZult units for only $380 shipped !!

Racelogic units for only $750-1020 !!

For more information, pricing, or ordering,
feel free to e-mail me: sales@ooparts-international.com
or visit the OOParts website

     
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